[Settings] Starting settings vs number of players

[Joffrey]

Hello there !

I don’t really know where to put this topic, but you can move it wherever you want…

The aim of this topic is to add clearance in the game starting settings mostly for :
- 1 player
- 2 players
- 3 players
- 4 players
- 4 or 6 players "team game" alternative scenario

As the expansion is a bit harder than the original game, I think it would be great to define "balanced" settings (mostly number of allies, scrounge, and fate cards per player) for every players configuration.

As a reminder on the original rulebook :

Single Player Rules
In a single-player game, your only objective is to survive long enough to get back to camp with all four Location tiles. There are no rules changes, though you may set the Walker deck aside, as it will not be needed. If you die, the game is over. If you succeed, try again playing as a different character.
Can you win with all six of them?

Four-Player Alternate Scenario: Team Game
In this alternate version of the game, players choose sides from the start. Two players start the game as walkers and two as survivors—it’s Team Zombie
vs. Team Survivor the whole game! The setup and objective for this team game are a bit different from the standard scenario. All other rules are the same.
Alternate Scenario Setup
~Each survivor chooses a character and its corresponding game piece. Place that game piece at Camp.
~Each walker player chooses a walker game piece and places it in one of the four sewer respawn locations.
~Each player grabs a Team badge.
~Put all 16 Ally tokens into the Ally pool. Then, give each survivor 4 Ally tokens.
~Make the Scrounge deck using 28 cards and shuffle it. Each survivor is then dealt 7 scrounge cards.
~Place each Location tile next to its matching corner.
~Put all unused character cards, game pieces, and Scrounge cards back into the box. They will not be used this game.
Object of the Alternate Scenario
Team Survivor: Between the two of you, collect at least one of each of the Location tiles, then return to Camp. It is not necessary for each survivor to collect each Location tile. Once the fourth Location tile has been collected, if either survivor makes it back to Camp, Team Survivor wins. If a survivor dies, any tiles he or she has collected are given to the remaining survivor.
Team Zombie: Kill both survivors and you win! They won’t turn into walkers, so the victory is shared only by the players who started the game as walkers.
Starting the Game
Team Survivor always goes first, so the two survivors should roll a die. The high roller goes first, and play proceeds clockwise.

Lets start in ascending number !

1 player config
Aim : Visit 4 locations and come back to Camp or Prison alive
Possible walker appearance : None
Starting settings : 2 Ally tokens for survivor + 2 in Ally pool + 5 scrounge cards for survivor + 5 scrounge in deck + 2 fate cards for survivor + fate deck (except cards involving other players). To me, the 5 scrounge cards + 2 fate cards seem rather limited in a single player game. The map being random, there could be lots of map configs with long way and lots of encounters...Maybe starting with 6 or more scrounge cards and/or 3 or more fate cards would be more balanced ? What do you think ?
Additionnal informations : Could add more scrounge cards in the starting deck as well instead or in addition to give more per player ?
Concerning fate card deck, I think it should be easier to get rid of unusable card from the beginning, so that you cannot pick a card you don’t need (involving other players for example) and discard it later, don’t you think ?

2 players config
Aim : Visit 4 locations and come back to Camp or Prison alive. First survivor who does it wins.
Possible walker appearance : None (sticking to the original rulebook). I still read on the cryptozoic forum that the first dying survivor could turn to make sure the 2nd survivor doesn’t win the game, but it would be nasty, particularly in the expansion version. What do you think ?
Starting settings : 2 Ally tokens per player + 4 in Ally pool + 5 scrounge cards per player + 10 scrounge in deck + 2 fate cards per player + fate deck (except cards involving non-existing characters ?). Again, the 5 scrounge cards + 2 fate cards seem limited to. Maybe starting with 6 or more scrounge cards and/or 3 or more fate cards would be more balanced ? What do you think ?
Additionnal informations : Could add more scrounge cards in the starting deck as well instead or in addition to give more per player ?
Concerning fate card deck, I think it should be easier to get rid of unusable card from the beginning, so that you cannot pick a card you don’t need (involving other non-existing players for example) and discard it later. But it could be too easy with 2 players…Your feeling ?

3 players config
Aim : Visit 4 locations and come back to Camp or Prison alive. First survivor who does it wins. If 2 survivors die, game shift into team zombie vs team survivor. If zombies kill all survivors before, they win.
Possible walker appearance : 2 (sticking to the original rulebook). 2 walkers may be nasty too, particularly in the expansion version. Perhaps, limit to 1 possible walker ? What do you think ?
Starting settings : 2 Ally tokens per player + 6 in Ally pool + 5 scrounge cards per player + 15 scrounge in deck + 2 fate cards per player + fate deck (except cards involving non-existing characters ?). Same remark than above concerning number of cards…?
Additionnal informations : Same than above (scrounge and fate deck…)

4 players config
Aim : Visit 4 locations and come back to Camp or Prison alive. First survivor who does it wins. If 2 survivors die, game shift into team zombie vs team survivor. If zombies kill all survivors before, they win.
Possible walker appearance : 2 (sticking to the original rulebook). Seems OK to me !
Starting settings : 2 Ally tokens per player + 8 in Ally pool + 5 scrounge cards per player + 20 scrounge in deck + 2 fate cards per player + fate deck (every cards this time). Seems balanced to me (already 1 win of survivors in this config for us)
Additionnal informations : None

5 players config
See expansion rulebook

6 players config
See expansion rulebook

4 players alternative “team game” config
Aim : Between the 2 survivors, collect at least one of each of the Location tiles, then return to Camp. It is not necessary for each survivor to collect each Location tile. Once the fourth Location tile has been collected, if either survivor makes it back to Camp, Team Survivor wins. If a survivor dies, any tiles he or she has collected are given to the remaining survivor. If zombies kill both survivors they win!
Possible walker appearance : None after the start of the game
Starting settings : 4 Ally tokens per player + 8 in Ally pool + 7 scrounge cards per player + 14 scrounge in deck + 2 fate cards per player + fate deck (every cards). Does it seem balanced to you for the expansion version (sewers…) ? What do you think ?
Additionnal askings : When do walkers start rolling the die ? Do they put map tiles ? If they wait for every map tile to be put in order to choose which spot to respawn on, they will be late on survivors…Your feeling ?

6 players alternative “team game” config
Aim : Between the 3 survivors, collect at least one of each of the Location tiles, then return to Camp. It is not necessary for each survivor to collect each Location tile. Once the fourth Location tile has been collected, if either survivor makes it back to Camp, Team Survivor wins. If a survivor dies, any tiles he or she has collected are given to one of the remaining survivor. If zombies kill the 3 survivors they win!
Possible walker appearance : None after the start of the game
Starting settings : 4 Ally tokens per player + All remaining in Ally pool + 7 scrounge cards per player + All remaining scrounge deck + 2 fate cards per player + fate deck (every cards). Does it seems balanced to you for the expansion version ? It may be easier for survivor since they can split up to visit 3 locations quickly… What do you think ?
Additionnal askings : When do walkers start rolling the die ? Do they put map tiles ? If they wait for every map tile to be put in order to choose which spot to respawn on, they will be late on survivors…Your feeling?


There will still need testing on all these configurations, which I will provide if needed (first mostly for 1 and 2 players game, and maybe with 4 players alternative scenario…)

Thanks for your return

[Nikolai Schwarzl]

Honestly the expansion was designed and tested for 4-6 players. Never tested the expansion with single, nor 2 or 3 players. So as you mentioned, lots of balancing is needed for few players. Further it was also designed only with the survival mode. Because the Team Game Type was never popular with my friends. No one want to play as a walker voluntarely.

In the rulebook for v2.17 it is better described, for few players, but it remains the same with the starting tokens and the amount of cards, because I have no idea, which will be the best for less than 4 players. Many games will be needed to find out, which will be the best. We needed more than a half year to balance just the 6 player setup.

You can try out, but it's a lot of work. But I am interested in your results.

Some notes for your post:

1 player: I think, you should shuffle out the Fate Cards impossible to use with just one character like Grimes Family, Better Angels and so on. Just keep Headshot, Cherokee Rose... With these many Tiles you have a long way to move. So you can hand out more cards and allies or remove some map tiles (crossroads #4, curve) for single player. I would prefer more cards.

2 players: Just remove the "Group Cards" like Grimes Family in the Fate Card deck. I would stick to the rules, if the first players dies and turns. That's the spirit of the game. You can hand out more cards and ally tokens, if you want. The rulebook is just a guideline.

3 players: It's better to just play with one walker player and let team up the two remaining survivors. Testing will be needed, if it is to easy for the survivors to win.

4,6 players: Is balanced. 4 Players was tested 1 month before release and some adjustments were done (Prison Map Tile, for example).

5 players: Never tested. Same as with 3 players. Testing will be needed.


Team Game: As mentioned, it was designed for Survival Mode. But you can try it this way:

Do not build the map "Turn by Turn". I would suggest: Before starting the game, the two survivors alternately build the tiles following the rules of placing map tiles according to the rulebook. (a Walker will place the locations on unreachable unfair spots) If the map is complete, start the game.

Walker Players will have to follow their Turn order (Spawn, roll the common die, draw 4 cards, move, play one card, end turn by drawing cards until 4) as written in the rulebook. Walker player NEVER place map tiles by the way!

Yeah, many testing will be needed. I am excited about your results, because my Testers are alway 4 or 6 players and we will test the new incident system.

[Joffrey]

1 player: I think, you should shuffle out the Fate Cards impossible to use with just one character like Grimes Family, Better Angels and so on. Just keep Headshot, Cherokee Rose... With these many Tiles you have a long way to move. So you can hand out more cards and allies or remove some map tiles (crossroads #4, curve) for single player. I would prefer more cards.

Thats sounds great. I will shuffle out unusable fate cards and start with 5 scrounge first. If I dont win in 5-6 games, I'll try 6 scrounge. I will give you feedback of my results after several games.

2 players: Just remove the "Group Cards" like Grimes Family in the Fate Card deck. I would stick to the rules, if the first players dies and turns. That's the spirit of the game. You can hand out more cards and ally tokens, if you want. The rulebook is just a guideline.

Hard with a walker ! ^^ I would suggest to keep the group cards usable (depending on which characters are chosen at the beginning) though...Will check that with some testings too

3 players: It's better to just play with one walker player and let team up the two remaining survivors. Testing will be needed, if it is to easy for the survivors to win.

The only 3 players game we did, walker appeared quickly, and killed 2nd survivor. It was too hard to visit the last locations and facing the 2 walkers attacks...So you're right, next time, 1 walker max should be more balanced !

Team Game: As mentioned, it was designed for Survival Mode. But you can try it this way:

Do not build the map "Turn by Turn". I would suggest: Before starting the game, the two survivors alternately build the tiles following the rules of placing map tiles according to the rulebook. (a Walker will place the locations on unreachable unfair spots) If the map is complete, start the game.

Walker Players will have to follow their Turn order (Spawn, roll the common die, draw 4 cards, move, play one card, end turn by drawing cards until 4) as written in the rulebook. Walker player NEVER place map tiles by the way!

Thats a good suggestion !! So walkers and survivors start to move after the map is fully set. But survivors still roll the die to place 1 or 2 map tiles per roll sticking to the rulebook

Thanks !

[Nikolai Schwarzl]

Thats a good suggestion !! So walkers and survivors start to move after the map is fully set. But survivors still roll the die to place 1 or 2 map tiles per roll sticking to the rulebook

Yes, you can roll the die, but I think, it's not that important, if you don't build "Turn by Turn", because they are in a team anyway.

You have to try. If you find a perfect balance for single player, I can include your results in the rulebook for other single players out there, credited to you, if you want.

[Joffrey]

You have to try. If you find a perfect balance for single player, I can include your results in the rulebook for other single players out there, credited to you, if you want.

No problem, we'll see about that. I think its great to have a good balance for single player because sometimes, friends are not all available. I'll keep notes from my single player games (no test yet), with our current settings, and see if the 1 win for 3 games is respected.
If not, we will adjust the balance gradually (by adding cards for example), I may use your help for that matter
I'll keep you posted !!